1963 Panhard PL17b Relmax - The Oppo Review

"Flavien Vidal" (flyingfrenchy) 08/21/2015 at 09:20 • Filed to: None

42

100

Panhard is a car manufacturer that many people, even in France, have sort of forgotten. Eventhough the manufacturer still exists today and produces military vehicules, most french people as well as most inhabitants of this planet have no freaking idea what Panhard was, let alone today’s car: The Panhard PL17.

First, let’s start with the pronunciation. Pân-âr, phonetically written p-a. You don’t pronounce the “n” you don’t pronounce the “d”. So good luck with that my dear american friends, and therefore no, this will not be a good pornstar name.

Now the PL17 itself. PL stands for Panhard-Levassor, the funders of the brand and the number 17 is quite a strech as it’s the addition of its french fiscal horsepower, 5 + the number of people it can seat, 6 + its gas consumption, 6L per 100km. 5+6+6= 17. Just this tells a lot about how tortured the minds behind the car must have been! This particular PL17 has a 50hp 2 cylinders 4-stroke engine and can reach a theoretical top speed of about 130kmh. To achieve this top speed, you most certainly need to be going downhill and benefit of a strong tailwind.

(Full Disclosure: Panhard wanted me to drive this car so much, that all the way to Japan, through the mouth of a weird-cars collector, the ghost of Jean Panhard asked me to go back in France and bring one back! True story.)

Anyway, let’s go on with this review!

Exterior - 8/10

It’s not beautiful, it’s not ugly, it’s just french. And for that it deserves such a high grade. This car screams goofyness, weirdness and has a total disregard for what people believe to look good. Its uniqueness only equals its propension to create big smiles on people who sees it rolling around and, let’s face it, that plays a big role as to why someone may be willing to drop 7 or 8000$ to own one.

It’s in a strange way very good looking, some sort of 4 wheeled Betty Boop with its big round curves and the almost cartoonish vision of what a car is supposed to be.

Interior - 3/10

Not exactly remarkable to say the least. Do you remember those seats at your grand parents’ place? Those seats that were very soft but set permanently at 95 degrees, making them utterly unconfortable unless you had something stucked up your ass? Well, these are those seats. You cannot recline them and they are at a 95 degrees angle. You can also feel the springs trying to make their way into your butt which makes medium to long trip incredibly tiring. You keep bouncing and sliding inside the car, the seats looking closer to some sort of couches with no holding abilities whatsoever. The “Relmax” name of the car actually defines the upgraded seat option that is fitted with this specific PL17. It means “Maximum Relaxe”. Yeah, right.

Other than that, the dashboard is covered of some sort of plastic with a rugged feeling to it and glued just like this, directly on the dash. Of course it peels fairly easily after so many years. The steering wheel is big, thin and made of plastic which, in summer, considering how hot it gets inside the car slides around your hands more easily than a Savon de Marseille in the shower.

Overall: not fantastic to say the least.

Toys - 2/10

No toys. It’s a grown-up car, damnit! Only game you can play is “What does this switch do?”. Half of them don’t seem to do anything, eventhough I keep trying to turn them on and off, just in case it suddenly start doing something like, lauching the hidden Nitrous or whatever. I keep on hoping. Fun times!

Audio - 8/10

Of course, no radio here, just the weird sound of the engine. Like the car’s design, the unique sound of its 2 cylinder 4 stroke engine is an important part that creates the appeal people have for it. It’s hard to describe it, but you can get a taste of it in the test drive video that comes after. I like it, so 8 out of 10 for me!

Acceleration - 1/10

Acceleration, hahaha, acceleration! No.

Braking - 5/10

Surprisingly, it brakes pretty well for such a car. Drum brakes on four corners of course, but it will stop the car fairly well. The fact that it doesn’t go very fast helps a lot though.

Ride - 4/10

It’s not good. A bit bouncy, quite a lot of body roll, all that combined with the crappy seats and you end up with passengers suddenly starting to feel seasick. Go figure. It’s also incredibly hot in the car, the engine being air-cooled and producing lots of heat that transfert into the cabin. Since temperatures in Japan average 30 degrees with A LOT of humidity, the whole thing just feels unconfortable, moist and you just want to get out of it ASAP when you start driving around.

Gearbox - 6/10

It has a column shifter that fits the car pretty well. It’s not practical to use in anyway, but it allows more space to fit 3 people in the front. The gearing is well adjusted for the car but the lack of synchro in first gear and the overall fragility of the gearbox make it a bit annoying to use in the city. Since there is no tachometer, I have no idea how high it revs but considering the car, it simply doesn’t really matter.

Handling - 3/10

What did you expect exactly? Of course it handles like a pig! It’s not a car built to handle the roads. It can turn (somewhat), it can stop and that’s it. Don’t ask for more, if you do, the only thing you’ll get, is a french !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! reducing the length of your car by a good meter. Here is a little video I made of it while going back from Nagoya Port, as soon as it set wheels in Japan. Don’t watch it at work if you are sleepy or it will send you pay a visit to Morpheus (The greek god of dreams, not Laurence Fishburne) faster than you can imagine. Notice the “ghost wipers” at 4min05.

Value - 6/10

Prices are not going anywhere. Prices won’t go up anytime soon but you can be certain that you will not lose money on it. The overall great reliability of the car will help minimizing the costs of ownership but the lack of specific parts might get annoying if you ever need some part very specific to the car.

(Its new owner, Eiichi Amano, the owner of the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! who bought it for himself, quite happy with his purchase)

Total - 46/100

Unlike the Fiat Dino that reached a grand total of 69/100 but that I would personnally rate around 90/100, this one gets pretty much the grade I would actually give it if I were to judge it through emotions and not logic. It’s not fun, it’s tiring to drive, it’s really slow but it looks funky and it makes a cool noise. Not my type of car and I’m happy to see it go to a great new home, but I understand the appeal that some may have for it. Personnally, I’ll stick with comfier and sportier cars. Long live to french weirdness though! If not fun to drive and own, it’s fun to watch and hear!

So long, strange little car! You are not for me, but I know you will keep on making many people happy for many years to come!

LongbowMkII > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 09:35

10

that trunk is so open. I’ve never seen a (nearly) clamshell trunk.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 09:35

4

I have to say, my main takeaway from this is that I really need a column shift.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 09:45

2

Daily!

Flavien Vidal > LongbowMkII 08/21/2015 at 09:47

14

It’s massive. At least 4 dead hookers, 5 if properly cut...

Flavien Vidal > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/21/2015 at 09:47

0

I prefer a normal shifter as far as I’m concerned haha

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 09:52

1

Oppo has conditioned me to like things that are slightly different for no reason.

Berang > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:01

0

I prefer the cleaner looks of the older Dyna, but this has a sort weird future-quaintness about it that is oddly appealing.

Also it looks like it scores 99/10 for the size of the trunk!

Berang > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/21/2015 at 10:11

0

Column shift is great. Or a dash shift like old Renaults and Hondas had.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Berang 08/21/2015 at 10:15

0

My last car had a dash shift and I loved it.

I miss that car sometimes.

Gary Yogurt > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:16

2

Sir, do you have Flickr account and can I see 12-1000 more photos of this shop?

Gary Yogurt > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:16

0

Look at that beast! What steering column!

Gary Yogurt > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:17

0

You could play Monopoly on that thing. Wow.

wkiernan > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/21/2015 at 10:17

1

I once had a SAAB 96 with a four-speed column shifter and I liked it a lot. If it had had a bench seat instead of two separate seats I’d have liked it even more. When your right hand is on the steering wheel and you want to shift, it’s right there.

Maxxuman > LongbowMkII 08/21/2015 at 10:17

0

That and the hood look like they’d feel very heavy if they fell on you.

Gary Yogurt > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:18

0

I’d mail you a blue star if I could.

Maxxuman > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:18

2

What do the 2 rocker switches do?

fintail > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:18

10

The earlier related Panhard Dyna Z is even more amusing, as it has suicide front doors, and the front end design resembles a tongue sticking out:

These were actually imported into the US in the late 50s, can’t imagine they sold to anyone but French expats.

Meyer Lansky Sqarrs > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:18

3

It sure is a cute li’l bugger.

Flavien Vidal > Gary Yogurt 08/21/2015 at 10:19

3

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/classic-cars-r…

No Flickr account, but there you go with extra pictures

Maxxuman > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:20

0

Daring chap - if that hood fell it’d likely make for a good guillotine.

Gary Yogurt > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:20

3

Cool, I’ll forward my boss to you when I’m being fired today.

Flavien Vidal > Maxxuman 08/21/2015 at 10:21

3

There’s a third one in the middle which get the wipers to work, the other two are still a mystery to me...

Flavien Vidal > Maxxuman 08/21/2015 at 10:21

2

Haha, it’s not that heavy so it’s alright

Flavien Vidal > fintail 08/21/2015 at 10:23

4

I might bring one back in September... we’ll see how it goes :)

Maxxuman > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:23

1

Ah, so he’s the guy who got the Dino .

Doctor-G-and-the-wagen > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:23

1

Dat trunk space...

Someone Else's Projects > wkiernan 08/21/2015 at 10:25

1

x2. The column shift was one of my favorite features of my 96. As close to the hand as paddle-shift, and with all the flexibility of a non-sequential shift.

Flavien Vidal > Maxxuman 08/21/2015 at 10:25

2

Yes, restoring it right now... I might end up buying it back from him when it’s done though... I really really love that Dino...

Flavien Vidal > Doctor-G-and-the-wagen 08/21/2015 at 10:29

1

Huge, freaking huge

JR1 > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:29

2

It’s unfortunate that such a historic marque had to go out of business the Panhard you reviewed just seems so charming. Even with a sad score of 46

Soused > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:30

0

You could readily fit 6 bodies in that. Hmmmmm.

TeriakSun > LongbowMkII 08/21/2015 at 10:31

1

Would have split in half if it weren’t for those meddling tail lights

Flavien Vidal > Soused 08/21/2015 at 10:32

1

Small Asian hookers then... 5 normal ones, if cut properly. The trunk is huge for the car which is not that big.

Flavien Vidal > JR1 08/21/2015 at 10:33

0

It didn’t go out of business... its “civilian cars manufacture” has been bought back by Citroen, but the military vehicle brand lives on today.

flyingstitch > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:37

0

What have we here?

Alex Murel > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:38

1

Here’s a cover photo if you want it.

JR1 > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:41

1

Well is that not kind of one and the same? It couldn’t compete anymore so it got sucked in by Citroen and slowly faded away? Mind you my knowledge of French cars is limited but I am glad to hear the military side of the company lives on.

Flavien Vidal > flyingstitch 08/21/2015 at 10:41

0

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/1967-fiat-dino…

This beauty ;)

Flavien Vidal > Alex Murel 08/21/2015 at 10:42

0

Awesome, thanks man! but I won’t put it, it kind of destroys it before even getting people to check the article haha

Slave2anMG > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:44

1

phydeaux > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:45

0

There’s a Panhard that’s shown up at the Northwest Historics the last couple years. Attracts a bit of attention because no one knows what in the world it is. Maybe not quite as good condition as this one, but hey, it’s what, 50 years old or something?

Flavien Vidal > JR1 08/21/2015 at 10:45

1

Not really... the company was profitable, it was just too small so it got fairly easily eaten with a nice check.

It was a military vehicle in the first place. Civilian stuff was not necessarily in the genes of the people behind it.

herald > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:46

2

Awesome car! Would hoon!

The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:46

0

I came.

whateverfarmanimalofwarlana > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:47

0

-Call girls.

-No, Cyril ! When they’re dead, they’re jut hookers !

Flavien Vidal > The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL 08/21/2015 at 10:53

0

That’s because you don’t know its secret.

Yes, it’s an automatic... It belongs to an old guy who owns a small company in front of the garage. I guess he’s too old to use his left foot :(

As far as I’m concerned, I’m buying an SC early next year. It will get restored by Amano-san later on this year and I’ll document the restoration on Oppo. My first 911!! Can’t wait!

Tapas > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:54

3

This^ is what I came here to say.

The french are very considerate. They made plenty room for the living and dead in the car!

The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:59

0

Congratulations! I’m actually planning to head back to Japan before summer next year. We’ll have to meet up and I’ll have to introduce you to some of my Wangan buddies. Are you located in the Tokyo area?

Judd > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 10:59

0

Hmmmm, interesting

Flavien Vidal > The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL 08/21/2015 at 11:02

0

Not at all :)

I’m in Nagoya area. But I can move around easily and have no predetermined schedule, so just let me know when you’re around!

Flavien Vidal > Judd 08/21/2015 at 11:04

1

Forget it.

Yep, it’s an automatic.

The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 11:04

0

Will do!

Flavien Vidal > phydeaux 08/21/2015 at 11:08

0

Yeah it’s old and rather rare, especially if you’re in Seattle area... Where are you in the Northwest BTW? I used to live in Edmonds, WA myself

kerc // drives a mirage, so what? > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 11:09

15

This trunk opening design blows my mind. Love it.

dogisbadob > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 11:10

1

Nice car, cool writeup. The red interior is awesome

Ben Lowrider > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 11:19

0

...and Panhard was bought by Auverland in 2005 and is now owned by Renault trucks defense since 2012.

Here is their new concept “car” the CRAB ( Combat Reconnaissance Armoured Buggy)

theorical speed of 110 km/h so not as fast as the PL17 but close...

ranwhenparked > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/21/2015 at 11:29

1

Column shifts are ideal for automatics, since the shifter is rarely if ever touched once the car’s moving and you can ditch the space hogging console.

They’re less ideal for manuals, but with synchromesh and only 3 or 4 speeds, they can be manageable.

Flavien Vidal > Ben Lowrider 08/21/2015 at 11:29

2

Remove the turret and that’s daily driver material to me :)

tebelivi > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 11:50

0

There is one guy in Quebec rebuilding one!

Nice blog (in french sorry)

http://panhardquebec.blogspot.de/?m=1

And a super nice DS scrapyard (best kept secret ever) has one PL17! Love this fishcar!

The Other DC > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 11:50

1

Well that was fun.

I feel like it looks sleepy and drunk. Like a little lost doe in the forest.
Aww.

Flavien Vidal > tebelivi 08/21/2015 at 11:53

0

Considering my name, where do you think I’m from? :)

Je suis français (de France lol) mais j’ai vécu 8 ans au QC... Elle est où celle là?

tapzz > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 11:55

1

3/10 for interior?

That’s a direct descendant of the first proper modern plastic dashboard

Mind you, everything about the Dyna Z was cooler than the PL17, IMHO.

I’m disappointed by the handling, though: I thought that the combination of light weight, stiff body, low centre of gravity and French suspension ingenuity meant that it was quite a good thing to punt through some bends. Not so, I guess....

Maxaxle > herald 08/21/2015 at 12:01

1

With a two-cylinder? How would hooning be any different from normal driving?

Flavien Vidal > tapzz 08/21/2015 at 12:06

0

The crappy tires sure don’t help either but the car was floaty under braking and really had little grip all the time... Kind of weird really, especially considering that this specific is in perfect well maintained condition

Equana > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 12:22

0

It must be owned by a trust fund baby alternative artist living in some east village loft that complains about all wasteful autos except the Panhard while smoking clove cigarettes. Mai Oui!

TheStigsGermanCousin > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 12:23

1

You’re right, it isn’t Beautiful or ugly. Is quirky and cute.

Cé hé sin > JR1 08/21/2015 at 12:31

1

Citroen basically killed off the make because they wanted the factory space for their own models so later Panhards weren’t allowed four doors or cylinders.

Ironically the 1970s Citroen GS was the kind of car Panhard would have wanted to make - four doors, aircooled flat four.

phydeaux > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 12:34

1

Maple Valley. Getting to the NW Historics is VERY easy from here. :)

Cé hé sin > fintail 08/21/2015 at 12:35

5

I prefer the later 24. Note the rear lights - same kind of design as some Audis today!

David Seaver > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 12:52

0

Absurd, impractical, but oddly charming. This is perhaps the M. Hulot of automobiles.

DoubleClutchingAutomatic > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 13:00

1

I’d love to putter around in that little car. Especially with that huge opening for the trunk!

tebelivi > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 13:05

1

Japan!!

Celle qui est en restauration est à Ville Lasalle (je crois) et la casse “cour à scrap” de DS est près de Bedford, QC. Près de la frontière américaine.

Au plaisir!

fintail > Cé hé sin 08/21/2015 at 13:17

0

Indeed, a very nice design for ~1965

Shiyal > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 13:24

1

I really do actually like this cute little fish face.

Dr. Strangegun > Cé hé sin 08/21/2015 at 13:29

0

Oh yes, those are simply gorgeous.

tapzz > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 13:32

0

Maybe it had cross-plies rather than radials?

Mind you, I guess any ‘50s car will handle somewhat alarmingly for those of us who didn’t grow up with them. It could well be that the Panhard was a good handler for the time...

herald > Maxaxle 08/21/2015 at 13:41

0

You can hoon ANYTHING if you try hard enough!

appliance5000 > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 13:51

0

Thank you.

appliance5000 > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 14:00

0

Dunno - having driven a Previa for many years, the idea that acceleration is needed in the modern world is highly overrated. Those vent windows must be a nice breezy feature. Lovely car - so very very French.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Ben Lowrider 08/21/2015 at 14:14

0

Can you imagine this made up with sheet aluminum or fiberglass body panels and a high output engine in the back? It would have potential to be a good desert racer. Or you could leave it armored and use it for the daily commute through traffic. Either way I would DD.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > ranwhenparked 08/21/2015 at 14:16

0

I guess it could be awkward at times.

Jonee > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 14:19

0

So cool. A PL17 Tigre is one of my dream cars. It has an interior that should rate a million.

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I’ve driven an earlier aluminum bodied Dyna and it had a certain charm that really won me over. Not a sports car by any means, just a pleasant slow driver. And really interesting engineering on those cars. Interestingly, there are a bunch still puttering around Cuba.

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-panhards-o…

Dr. Mantis Toboggan, M.D. > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 16:50

1

That’s actually a damn cool taillight treatment. Why can’t we get this kind of thing on modern cars?

Dr. Mantis Toboggan, M.D. > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 16:51

1

Please do! I have a hard-on for these things, for some reason.

staghounds > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 18:08

1

Parole. Demilitarised, these would be the best off road production vehicles ever.

Flavien Vidal > Equana 08/21/2015 at 18:12

1

haha, nah, we actually don’t have people like this here in Japan :)

Flavien Vidal > David Seaver 08/21/2015 at 18:18

0

It is indeed with an ounce of sexyness :)

Flavien Vidal > tapzz 08/21/2015 at 18:21

1

Well, compared with Italian cars of the same era, it’s pretty bad, really :)

As for the tires, no they are modern tires on it.

Flavien Vidal > appliance5000 08/21/2015 at 18:23

0

The vents windows were common at the time and very good at doing their job indeed :)

Flavien Vidal > Jonee 08/21/2015 at 18:26

1

Very few tigre Panhard had this interior (luckily lol)... The extra HP of the Tigre engine is not something I would mind, especially if I were to carry 5 passengers around :)

Flavien Vidal > Dr. Mantis Toboggan, M.D. 08/21/2015 at 18:34

1

Stupid regulations of course! :)

Flavien Vidal > Dr. Mantis Toboggan, M.D. 08/21/2015 at 18:35

1

It will depend on my budget when it’s on sale... These things are not cheap once fully restored. Even if I’d get a good price, I have other cars to buy too...

InvalidnostCCCP > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 18:43

3

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it’s lovely.

Flavien Vidal > InvalidnostCCCP 08/21/2015 at 18:46

2

I think so too! And if not “beautiful” it’s at least very cute :)

MechaScroggzilla > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 19:10

3

And yet, a PL17 Tigre, piloted by Martin and Bateau, won the 1961 Monte Carlo Rally

Equana > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 19:16

1

How fortunate for Japan!

They are soooo tedious.

Flavien Vidal > Equana 08/21/2015 at 19:20

1

Well there probably is to be honest, but let’s say that it’s not San Francisco or Manhattan :)

Flavien Vidal > MechaScroggzilla 08/21/2015 at 19:29

0

Better than that actually, they finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd place! On the other hand, they would have never won if it wasn’t for the rules modified in a way that gave a massive advantage to Panhard. Theresults were based not on sheer speed (The Panhard were not the fastest by any means!) but based on a power/weight/time ratio coefficient. The fastest car of the Rally, a Citroen ID19, finished 19th...

That’s also the only reason why a Mini Cooper ever won the MonteCarlo in early 60’s... Fastest time were back in business in 1966... And so were Mini, this time being more competitive :)

steelframe > fintail 08/21/2015 at 19:45

1

My Grandfather had one of those, used as a planter box in the front yard. Of course he called it a Pan-Hard. He also had a R’nalt.

Aliens Ate My Buick > Flavien Vidal 08/21/2015 at 19:52

0

Does it have a Panhard rod?